“The problem is that efficiency will be insufficient to get us to the new paradigm. If we simply become more efficient with the coal and the nuclear, then we are still coal-powered and nuclear-powered…That’s where we call for eco-effectiveness…Eco-effectiveness is doing the right thing instead of doing the wrong thing the right way.”

In 2002, William McDonough and Michael Braungart’s Cradle to Cradle: Remaking the Way We Make Things shook up the sustainability world. The book had a completely different, healthier vision for how we design production, a vision that is about to be updated next year when they release Cradle to Cradle Two.

What does the ‘Cradle to Cradle’ approach entail?

It looks at the world as an opportunity for closed cycles for materials that go back to soils or go back to industry forever. It has a number of fundamental questions that get asked of any product or system. Is the material meant to go back to the soil safely or back to industry safely? Then we ask, do we have the reverse logistics in place to get things back to wherever the recycling protocol will take place? Is it renewably powered? Because we see a perfect world as a renewably powered world. By following these principles you end up with a far more sustainable process and planet.

What do you mean by there is no ‘away’?

I think that when we saw the planet from outer space in 1969 we realized that ‘away’ had gone away. You cannot throw things away cause there is no such thing as away. Once you have that change in consciousness, it is time for a change in design. So we need to design things so that they do not get thrown away; instead so that they get thrown into systems that restore soil or restore industry as part of their design protocol.

I heard there was an interesting announcement made where you spoke at the World Future Energy Summit concerning renewables.

Something historic happened. Abu Dhabi committed $15 billion to this new town called Masdar and it will be a zero carbon city. In the last 40 years we have seen the prices of oil rise up and then dip occasionally, destroying all the investments in renewables. So the oil countries and OPEC have a switch where they can switch off renewables. Now, they can switch it on.

Are they acting out of concern for energy supplies, environmental concerns or something else?

It absolutely looks like common sense has started to take over. There is no reason in place like that with that much sun and sand not to be solar powered. I don’t know how much intentionality is in it but the crown prince of Abu Dhabi did say that they are in the energy business, [so] why wouldn’t they be in the future energy business? Now all of a sudden it’s in their interest to make sure that renewables are cost effective because they are investing in them.

You have said that “eco-efficiency only works to make the old, destructive system a little bit less so” and that it “presents little more than an illusion of change.” Could you please elaborate on these statements?

I think we have been misinterpreted as being against efficiency. We are totally for efficiency; in the short term it can yield tremendous results. The cheapest and fastest way to save energy and move towards renewables is to use less. The problem is that efficiency will be insufficient to get us to the new paradigm. If you posited that the goal was to be a 100% renewably powered planet, if we just simply are more efficient than what we are doing today with the coal and the nuclear, then we are still coal-powered and nuclear-powered. We are just more efficient about it. So it does not bring us to the renewable equation. That’s where we call for eco-effectiveness that goes along with eco-efficiency. Eco-effectiveness is doing the right thing instead of doing the wrong thing the right way.

Do you think we need to be concerned about global food supplies?

I would certainly think so. Especially with the move towards bio-based fuels and polymers, the “food for fuel” debate brings that question up pretty seriously. Obviously we have had huge fuel inputs into our agriculture with the ‘Green Revolution’ that has allowed the population to rise to its current levels. We hope for another ‘Green Revolution’ with agricultural science and genomics. But I think that we have to take stock of the food question relative to the health of soils really urgently and the depletion of soils because simply designing plants that are salt tolerant when we increase the salinity of the soil is like rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic. We all talk about climate change and other global issues of serious concern but the whole soil depletion question doesn’t seem to rise to the surface very often. But it is a serious problem.

If we run into ‘Peak Oil’ problems, which you have said you could imagine being a real challenge, and we don’t have this second ‘Green Revolution’, we could really run into some serious problems with food supply. Yet I never hear anyone talk about this. I don’t get it. Being able to eat seems to be the number one question for survival.

I don’t either.

If you could know the answer to any question in the world, what might it be?

Why we love babies and then lose that love as we get older, relative to the ability to celebrate each other. I grew up in Japan and Hong Kong and it always amazed me to reflect on wars and how we would find ourselves pitted against each other as cultures, and yet as individuals we could celebrate the birth of every child. You know, anyone who is handed a baby would find this emotional connection and yet the idea that there would be the potential for fear and hatred among adults; I just wonder what happens.

Jordy Gold is a sustainability expert and columnist for Corporate Knights. You will find his work online at www.jordygold.com