Pushing the Limits Interview with Robert F. Kennedy, Jr.
“I think that quality of life, at least in the United States, is going to drop precipitously…Our growth is completely fueled by borrowing from our children and the money is being loaned by China…At some point they are going to stop loaning us that money because their returns on investment…are not high enough to justify it…and you are going to see a dramatic economic collapse in the United States.”
Robert F. Kennedy Jr. has never been one to rest on the laurels of the past successes of his distinguished family. He has become one of the world’s preeminent environmental crusaders, starting with the United States. While he has something valuable to say on everything from the current Bush administration (in his book, Crimes Against Nature), to his patron saint (St. Francis of Assisi, on whom he has written a children’s book), it is on the issue of water where he has perhaps delivered his most profound impact. He is the chief prosecuting attorney for an organization called Riverkeeper, and the president of the Waterkeeper Alliance, which has led to the reation of well over 100 Waterkeeper organizations around the world. Kennedy’s leadership in Riverkeeper’s attempt to return the fouled Hudson River to its original state led Time magazine to single him out as one of their “Heroes for the Planet.”
JG: If you were President for the next 100 days, with full cooperation from Congress and the Senate, what would be your top three priorities?
RK: I would tax carbon production and other bad behaviour because I believe strongly in free market capitalism and, right now, we are taxing productivity instead. We’re taxing innovation and we’re taxing good things. We want to reward the good and punish the bad. Our tax system should be doing that first of all.
I would put an immediate stop to mountain-top mining.
I would declare an Apollo-style project to free us of our dependence on fossil fuel, which would mobilize the American public and our technologic, scientific and military resources toward that end.
JG: What is the role of government in creating a sustainable society and a sustainable economy?
RK: One of government’s primary responsibilities is to protect the commons—the air we breathe, the water, the public lands—on behalf of all the people of the community, rich or poor, humble or noble. The best measure of how a democracy functions is how it distributes the goods of the land. Do we allow those assets to be monopolized and stolen by a few powerful individuals or corporations or do we maintain them in the hands of the public at large?
We need democracy for capitalism to function. We need a campaign finance system that keeps corporate money out of politics. Corporations should not be running our political system. Corporations are good things. They drive our economy. They encourage people to assemble wealth and to risk it and they create jobs. But corporations don’t want free markets; they don’t want democracy. They want profits, and the best way for them to get profits is to use the campaign finance system—which is just a system of legalized bribery—in order to capture and get their hooks into public officials, then use those public officials to dismantle the market place and give them monopoly control and to privatize the commons.
JG: What are the greatest threats to fresh water?
RK: The growth of factory farms is a huge threat to clean water because factory farming relies on disposing of its waste in ways that damage water. The business plan of that industry is based upon gross amounts of pollution being carried away for free from those facilities. And usually our waterways play an important role in this.
The pavement of our landscapes is also a giant threat to clean water. The worst thing you can do to a waterway is pave the watershed from which it drains. Sewage and storm water are also big threats. We can solve all of these problems. We have the technologies and the scientific capacity to do it. The only thing we lack is political will.
JG: How do you feel about bulk water exports?
RK: I am opposed to them. I think Canada would make a huge mistake by allowing bulk water exports to the United States and elsewhere.
JG: Some people say Canada should privatize and sell our fresh water before the Americans come in and simply take it.
RK: I don’t think the Americans can take Canada’s water unless Canada allows it.
JG: Do you think companies should be allowed to privatize fresh water?
RK: No. It’s a public resource and it ought to be managed as a public resource. We’ve seen in the US experience over the past six years that government can manage those resources far better than the private enterprise.
JG: You have written a children’s book chronicling the life of St. Francis of Assisi who was seen to have a special connection with the natural world. What role does religion or organized religion play in creating a sustainable world?
RK: If you look at the history of world religions, the central epiphany in every religious belief occurs in the wilderness. Buddha had to go to the wilderness to experience self-realization, nirvana. Mohammed had to go to the wilderness to have his central revelation, to have the Qur’an squeezed out of him by an angel on the summit of Mount Hara. Moses had to go into the wilderness for 40 days to get the commandments. Christ had to go into the wilderness for 40 days to experience his divinity for the first time. The wilderness has played a critical role. It’s where God talks to us most clearly—where human beings most easily sense the divine. Every religious text is filled with mandates that we protect creation. That it is part of the common heritage.
JG: There has been discussion that China’s economic growth targets are impossible, particularly in light of the quantity of resources they require and what the West already consumes. Will the West need to decrease its current rate of consumption?
RK: I think that quality of life, at least in the United States, is going to drop precipitously. At this point the quality of life in the United States is completely fueled by borrowing from China and the Arab countries, financially speaking. Our growth is completely fueled by borrowing from our children and the money is being loaned by China. They are loaning us the money so that we can buy their products to jump-start new industries which are competing with our old industries. At some point they are going to stop loaning us that money because their returns on investment—the interest rates—are not high enough to justify it. It’s in their interest at this point to do this, and at some point that’s not going to be so and you are going to see a dramatic economic collapse in the United States. China is competing with us for resources. The plumber who works on my house told me that a year ago he could buy copper tubing for 75 cents a pound, now it is $15 a pound. That is because of the demand from China. The same thing is happening with PVC pipe. So inflation in this country is not going to be driven by interest rates, and it won’t be absolved through interest rate manipulation.
JG: What can the administration do now to avoid that problem?
RK: First of all, we can stop borrowing from future generations and start paying as we go. Number two, we should get out of Iraq so that we can restore some prestige to the United States around the world. Number three, we can start taking care of the environment and reducing our dependence on foreign oil.
It’s all about leadership. You have to be able to explain to people what you are doing. We’ve had presidents throughout our history who have demanded national sacrifice. President Roosevelt during World War II rationed gasoline and people didn’t resent him for it. He explained it to them clearly. He explained why it was important and people—Americans—want to make sacrifices for the sake of their country. Right now we are not being asked to. The only people being asked to sacrifice are our children who cannot vote and the poor kids who are sent to Iraq.
Jordy Gold is a sustainability expert and columnist for Corporate Knights. You will find his work online at www.jordygold.com
